Not bagging anyone in the top 20 BUT...

As i wasn't able to make it to this years nats, i'll leave this up to the judgement of those that went.
It's a GENUINE question (maybe a little bit of the NSW custom van loverowner in me), but how did a stock looking Escort win this year in comparison to say Dougies van,Or even for that matter the V8 HR pano?

I know this happens every year that this one and that one should have/have not won, but i'm just curious if the Escort was THAT much of a stand out in comparison.

This in no way bagging these van owners but i can't fathom how a muraled van looses to a stock van, when they both look detailed in lots of ways.

Mate, we have had similar conversations recently.
Apparently the Escort is really, really tidy. But even so, it's a 4 banger. Russell's Blown V8 Escort is there also and cannot beat it?
Tilt fronted V8 HR (ex Bad Ass) and many, many others.

Judging is always flaky and nobody seems keen to set up a decent set of rules.
Don't worry about it. It's a situation that can't or won't be sorted. I've got some answers, it's just that nobody is interested.

Enjoy it for it's own value and let the dust collectors sit on shelves where they belong.

Regards, Smooth

I can agree with everything you say Smooth,but Where's the motorvation to do something a bit different from standard?
I'd be stoked to have my van in the top 20 (it'll never happen), but if i'd spent $X and 100's of man hours more on mine to get murals and body mods etc, i'd bit a bit peeved to get beaten by a stock van with nice paint and a tidy engine bay etc, that could have been bought straight and tidy already.

Maybe it's just me, and i appreciate customised/modified vans more then the stock form.

Agro,

Stock bodied in some peoples eyes, but there may be plenty of custom work to get things right.

Take the fact it has 15' wheels and good sized rubber on it.

What did it come out with stock?

Can't tell me the wheels went on without modifications to the body...

Murals hide a lot of imperfections in body work/paint.

Food for thought.
Jon.

It's is hard for some people to see subtle modifications and sometimes these are in fact harder to do and cost more.
They aren't in your face. Styles change and all these styled cars have to be judged on a level playing field.

I see it from both sides. In the end though, a highly modified driveline should out score a detailed stock running gear vehicle.

You build '70's Agro, I loved it then and I love looking at them now. We need people like you to keep the old skool customs (some say traditional Vans) alive.

Regards, Smooth

Jonny James wrote:Agro,
Stock bodied in some peoples eyes, but there may be plenty of custom work to get things right.
Take the fact it has 15' wheels and good sized rubber on it.
What did it come out with stock?
Can't tell me the wheels went on without modifications to the body...
Murals hide a lot of imperfections in body work/paint.
Food for thought.
Jon.

Good point Jon

sinbin wrote:It's is hard for some people to see subtle modifications and sometimes these are in fact harder to do and cost more.
They aren't in your face. Styles change and all these styled cars have to be judged on a level playing field.

I see it from both sides. In the end though, a highly modified driveline should out score a detailed stock running gear vehicle.

You build '70's Agro, I loved it then and I love looking at them now. We need people like you to keep the old skool customs (some say traditional Vans) alive.

Regards, Smooth

Good point as well and long live the 70's!

agro, our van will never win a nats with the concourse judging that goes on but i tell you it will have all the WOW! that the old vanners are looking for, lots of mods done by people who have qualifications in nothing at all but a passion for vans,
it will never be perfectly straight or factory true but it will always be our van and it is our take on what vans should look like,
"LONG LIVE THE TRUE VANNER< BUILT FOR A PURPOSE NOT A PRIZE".......

serendipity wrote:agro, our van will never win a nats with the concourse judging that goes on but i tell you it will have all the WOW! that the old vanners are looking for, lots of mods done by people who have qualifications in nothing at all but a passion for vans,
it will never be perfectly straight or factory true but it will always be our van and it is our take on what vans should look like,
"LONG LIVE THE TRUE VANNER< BUILT FOR A PURPOSE NOT A PRIZE".......

Well put. I totally agree with all your comments.
May i use the "BUILT FOR A PURPOSE NOT A PRIZE" as a signature please??

Having strolled around the show and shine and checked out most of the vans, I picked the first and second place getters before the awards were announced.

The blue Escort deserved to win as it was simply the tidiest build there. It was displayed well, spotlessly clean (the benefit of trailering and not driving), had a heap of nice subtle touches and everything looked like it was ment to be there.

As mentioned murals do cover up a lot of paint flaws and there was more than one van than that had humidity blisters and other "uglies" that had been "hidden" with the us of murals.

A lot of the rest of the Top 14 I seen left me scratching my head a bit too.

It happens every year though, the Sunstate guys did a great job of running the event and trying to keep everyone happy, hats off to them for all their effort.

The judging at the van nats has always been a very hot topic since the 80's and 30 years later still provides results that are hard to understand, I'm avoiding the hassle and heartbreak of it by simply never entering any of my vans at the nats again.

sinbin wrote:I see it from both sides. In the end though, a highly modified driveline should out score a detailed stock running gear vehicle.

Regards, Smooth

Yeah most of us do, the Vic states titles a few years back was probably the hardest to understand results I've ever seen.

Stock purple Escort beats a FJ van with, suicide doors, reverse tilt bonnet, supercharged and injected V8 and sweet as detailing.

Earlier on the same Escort beat Street Legal at the van nats.........

Yeah judging doesn't always give results that make sense unfortunately.

agro wrote:

serendipity wrote:agro, our van will never win a nats with the concourse judging that goes on but i tell you it will have all the WOW! that the old vanners are looking for, lots of mods done by people who have qualifications in nothing at all but a passion for vans,
it will never be perfectly straight or factory true but it will always be our van and it is our take on what vans should look like,
"LONG LIVE THE TRUE VANNER< BUILT FOR A PURPOSE NOT A PRIZE".......

Well put. I totally agree with all your comments.
May i use the "BUILT FOR A PURPOSE NOT A PRIZE" as a signature please??

no worries , you can use it cheers

I had a real good look at the Escorts and the blue one was extremely tidy. It was amazing. I must admit I am a huge Escort fan (I've had 4 myself) so I may be a little biased. lol
I agree that there were other vans that were close but the Esky really was that good.

Guys, build your van for you, not judges. This year the Falcon Gt Nationals (on every two years) are at Bathurst, hosted by our club. I am not even getting my nine year old 20,000km BAGT out to take it. Its my car for me, I dont care what others think. Show results are and always have been biased to "the known"
Take for example the latest street machine, Howard Astill has done a "restification" (their word) on a XBGT coupe. Does he even know GT'S have black rear window moulds not polished? will it ever be mentioned? and if it does some sort of design athetics will thrown out there. Now its a nice car but, its supposed to look standard
This is just an example of "the known" getting away with things, others dont
BTW Agro and Smooth, I too believe in building a van/car, customised to the era it was born, old school for old and hi-tech for new
is someone going to post any pics???

A lot of good points have been made,I was not at the nats so I cannot say what should of been number one but there will always bee flaws in the judging system.As for the van nats I have never been interested in attending,as for our van in that is my number one event and that I am looking forward to.
I was talking to Rob the other day about judging at shows and I said to him that to me the biggest accolade you can get is peoples choice,that to me has to be the highest honour then getting voted best van or car or whatever at a show.I do agree with billet that you build you're ride for yourself to love and enjoy it is for you and the way you wan't it and yes old school all the way

Regards Tony.

"leave em"wanting more!

Very hot topic and one I should stay away from as I'll start to get both totally confused and mouthy. I will say however that the blue Escort was sanitary inside and out.

I'm sitting here looking at a full list of trophy winners and some leave me totally speechless. The top 15 seems mostly right but in totally the wrong order after no.2, and the one van to me that is missing and was an absolute cracker inside out and upside down was the purple XY van parked and full open for display in the show just behind the front majestic row. Tell me how a van that made the top 15 can beat this XY (which won absolutely nothing mind you) when the placegetter didn't even have its bonnet open and was grimey underneath.

The showscene was explained for me last year at a non-van event where there was a van trophy, when I overheard one judge say to the other about Disturbia 'why would you bother'..

Dismounting my high horse as I write this!

Cheers

simopar wrote:Very hot topic and one I should stay away from as I'll start to get both totally confused and mouthy. I will say however that the blue Escort was sanitary inside and out.

I'm sitting here looking at a full list of trophy winners and some leave me totally speechless. The top 15 seems mostly right but in totally the wrong order after no.2, and the one van to me that is missing and was an absolute cracker inside out and upside down was the purple XY van parked and full open for display in the show just behind the front majestic row. Tell me how a van that made the top 15 can beat this XY (which won absolutely nothing mind you) when the placegetter didn't even have its bonnet open and was grimey underneath.

The showscene was explained for me last year at a non-van event where there was a van trophy, when I overheard one judge say to the other about Disturbia 'why would you bother'..

Dismounting my high horse as I write this

Cheers

Sounds to me that the judges are not old schooled enough!And it would really p%ss me off if I heard anyone say why would you bother!!

Kiwivan

our 2% is serendipity will never be entered in a nationals, it will only be on display

Your point on the XY is extremely valid Simon! And I am sure at least one of the top 15 would agree with it, Skid Row(blue escort) had a lot of well done subtle touches and did deserve it's place, the paint was very very good compared to a lot of others(mine included ) Judging always creates controversy and should be avoided as much as possible. Build your van for you to enjoy, whatever that entails.
Neil

I put my cars into different shows but I never put them in for judging.It seems to rely on someones opinion,and everybody has a different opinion.
You could call my van an "anti show van" as it's flat black and very simple ,but it still gets accepted
at shows and gets a lot of good comments and compliments.....and I have a lot of fun with it.

I wouldnt weorry about entering my van at the Nationals or any such thing, the all ford day was a laugh, but it was more as a display thing only. I know mine isnt good enough, its built the way Im happy with it. I has dents, paint chips etc etc. It polishes up ok, looks alrighty (from a distance anyway). Anyhoo, the point Im making I guess is, I know my van couldnt compete with some of the other excellent vans out there, so why would I waste judges time etc when they would walk up to my van and say "geez, why would you bother......" Im kool with that, I dont agree with them saying that about Disturbia though. That vans a weapon.

To me I like the way we done the judging at the van in and it was done by the entrants,it was right across the board and to me was no bias at all and well deserved winners and a great time

Regards Tony.

"leave em"wanting more!

i have had bluEJay in a few shows half of the time simply to get parking at a car show

i have had good comments and i have had blokes stand there and pick the crap out of her and some times there right things to need to be fixed or changed and some times you just smile and wave when thay tell you thats not a bad EH mate ive just finished mine

but i do have to say the judging system at the van in last year was excellent three reasons
1 it got every one involved and looking and admiring / envying each others vans and it keep us busy for an hour or two
2 your van was being judged by your peers this is important particuly with vans from stock to mild to wild all end up on as level footing as possible
3 i won a trophy Majestic Vanners’ Choice that sits on a high shelf over my van in the cave with pride

also any one got the top 15 vans a list with photos ?

Courtesy of Sunstate Panelvan Club:

Thanks for posting this up and Sunstate for doing it up. Great work guys.

Nothing like pics to add to the confusion...........